So my dad and I recently had a fight. Normally it is about my views verses his views. I’m pretty sure they think I am a heretic. He showed me a YouTube video of Christians praying against homosexual marriage at some rally or something. The Christians were also singing a hymn and the gay people didn’t really like either so they started yelling and telling them to leave. It was quite a violent reaction. The Christians had to be escorted out by police. This was their proof that Christians were not being tolerated etc. I had a problem with this video and was dumb enough to share my problems with my dad. I don’t remember all the discussion points because it became quite heated but I’ll try to hit as many as I remember.
I asked the question why were the gay people so angry at the Christians. It is because they see them as hating them. Of course a good Christian can’t hate so they won’t admit that but to the gay people it looks the same. They can’t see the separation in, “ love the sinner hate the sin” when Christians are praying against them. Christians attack the lifestyle and you can’t attack the lifestyle without attacking the person. They say they don’t hate the homosexuals but it is hard to tell. I have been in church services and I have heard how Christians talk about gay people. It usually isn’t in a positive light. How can we say we love them if we call them names or make fun of them? It seems like a mixed message…
I asked my father how he would feel if people started picketing his business and tried to shut him down. (We have a costume/magic/tuxedo business by the way) There are some Christians who have problems with magic even though this is the sleight of hand variety and not the animal entrails kind. What if some well meaning Christians thought we were spreading witchcraft and evil and we can’t be polluting the people’s minds like that so they tried to get us to shut down. What if they tried to pass laws to run us out of town? They picket our store; silently pray against us. Form a circle around the store and pray to God we would close our doors. How would he feel? He had little to say…
One of my problems is with Christians who try to pass stupid laws like this. They are trying to ban gay marriage and I tried to ask my dad “to what end?” of course he couldn’t answer this. I doubt he knew. I asked what they were trying to accomplish. If they ban gay marriage will they stop being gay? Will they stop fighting and put down their signs and find the nearest person of the opposite sex to marry? Will they see the light and become Christians? Of course not. The only thing it will accomplish is it will make them hate Christians more. The fact that they hate them now was just proof that the Christians are right. To me it just said the Christians gave them good reason to hate them. Doesn’t mean the Christians were right. I asked him if Jesus would be in that picket line with the Christians. He said yes and I couldn’t control myself. I laughed a mighty, “B******t!” I couldn’t imagine Jesus praying AGAINST anyone. It doesn’t look like love. My father said it was love and it doesn’t matter what it looks like. Back to the hypothetical magic protesters, the people that would picket our store might say they have the best of intentions for us. They say they care for us and the people that we damage with our witchcraft. They are just showing it by fighting tooth and nail for our destruction. Would they be holding signs saying, “You are going to HELL!”? What love they have!
I see Jesus having dinner with these “sinners”, being their friend, loving on them, not picketing them and praying against them as strangers. There’s a point I didn’t think of till after… How did the sinners of Jesus day respond to Him? If these Christians are acting like Jesus sinners should respond likewise to Christians right? Of course the sinners of Jesus day hated him and yelled at him and fought with him… Oh wait! The sinners were his friends! He hung out with them and ate with them! Jesus was accused of being a sinner because of the people he hung out with and his reputation of being a glutton and a drunk! If Jesus were here today he would be accused of being gay or at the very least a gay supporter! How did Jesus treat the people who followed all the rules? He yelled at them and called them horrible names. (Matthew 3:7, 23:13-15, 23:25, 27,)
He brought up that homosexuality is a sin but the times it is mentioned in the Bible it is often right next to things Christian do all the time. In Leviticus it is right in there with things like eating shellfish and cutting the edges of your beard, or touching the skin of a dead pig (football) or eating meat with the blood still in it or wearing clothes of two different materials among lots of other things.
Why is homosexuality any worse than gluttony or greed? Why aren’t Christians picketing buffets and shopping malls? I asked him how many times Jesus mentions homosexuality. He didn’t know. He says he believes in his precious Bible and he doesn’t know. I told him not once. He said God hates it and we should hate the things God hates. I agree, but there are far more things than homosexuality. A quick word search of the Bible shows that God hates cross dressing. Yet we have helped several people in our own store dress up like the opposite sex. Sometimes for fun and sometimes they really were cross dressers. My fathers own son and daughters, (my siblings) have dressed up as the opposite sex and taken pictures in his store for fun and the only problem my father had was that they made a mess.
And what about divorce? We will admit adultery is a sin but divorce is ok. It is unfortunate but still acceptable. When Jesus himself says ,“He answered, ‘Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her.’” Mark 10:11. I know prominent members of my former church who have divorced and remarried and now have positions in the church. I don’t know the whole story and I am not judging anyone because I believe in grace, but when they pick something like homosexuality to damn someone and ignore their own damning sin it looks like the very definition of a double standard. If they have divorced and remarried they have committed adultery and by these Old Testament standards they hold they should be put to death. It’s a good thing we have the story of the woman caught in adultery when Jesus says those precious words, "Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more." Christians might say that the homosexuals are not repenting from their sin but maybe it’s because they haven’t met Jesus yet…
My father also said you couldn’t be a homosexual and be a Christian and I asked why you could be a glutton or be greedy or a liar and still go to heaven? Every Christian is one or another and yet these are acceptable. These are good sins. He said you couldn’t continue to sin and be saved. I think I’ll stand on grace because I wouldn’t make it otherwise.
I asked him if he knew why Sodom was destroyed and he didn’t know. Again it seems like he doesn’t even know his Bible. Ezekiel 16:49-50 " 'Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.”
Now homosexuality could be one of these detestable things, but if it were so important wouldn’t they mention it by name and maybe leave out “overfed” or “Did not help the poor and the needy?”. These sins seem familiar…
It tears me up inside to look into the eyes of my father and those like him and realize that he doesn't care about “love” he cares about "truth" whatever that is. He thinks that homosexuals need to know "you are going to hell", not Jesus. True or not shouldn't our heart be broken? This reminds me of a quote:
“Sometimes in an effort to remind people of the cost of the cross we withhold grace until we are sure they understand their sin but it’s in the giving of our grace that we remind people to go to Jesus to find their own. People understand their sin without our help, it’s grace that they need help understanding.”-Youtube video “Finding grace”
Why stand on the side of condemnation and being "right" rather than love? Why do we think we can condemn sin when the one who NEVER sinned didn't condemn (John 8 3:17)? Still doesn’t if I’m not mistaken...
I am not saying homosexuality is a sin or not. It probably is but my point is who cares!? It isn’t about this being a sin or not because all sins get you the same death. The sin of lying will condemn the homosexual just as much as homosexuality. You can change all the laws you want and it might get people to act more Christian but it won’t make them more Christ-like. Christ said it was all about the heart. He preached that if you have anger and hatred you have the same spirit of murder. If you have lust it is the same spirit as adultery. If we change the laws so no homosexual can be married or no one can get a legal abortion they might act a little better so Christians don’t freak out but the hearts will be the same.
To borrow the phrase "render unto Caesar" maybe we should focus less on politics and more on people. I am under the opinion that Christians should vote and have their say but to get overly involved in politics seems like this world is our home. Get involved in people’s lives, not bills and amendments.
What would Jesus do? As the tired phrase goes… Would he pray against the homosexuals? Would he start with, “God, please bless the homos”?
Thursday, May 21, 2009
“God, please bless the fagots” Original unedited version!
So my dad and I recently had a fight. Normally it is about my views verses his views. I’m pretty sure they think I am a heretic. He showed me a YouTube video of Christians praying against homosexual marriage at some rally or something. They were singing and the gay people didn’t really like this so they started yelling and telling them to leave. It was quite a violent reaction. The Christians had to be escorted out by police. This was their proof that Christians were not being tolerated etc. I had a problem with this video and was dumb enough to share my problems with my dad. I don’t remember all the discussion points because it became quite heated but I’ll try to hit as many as I remember.
I asked the question why were the gay people so angry at the Christians? It is because they see them as hating them. Of course a good Christian can’t hate so they won’t admit that but to the gay people it looks the same. You can’t separate love the sinner hate the sin when they are praying against you. Christians attack the lifestyle and you can’t attack the lifestyle without attacking the person. They say they don’t hate the homosexuals but it hard to tell. I have been in church services and I have heard how Christians talk about gay people. It usually isn’t in a positive light. How can we say we love them if we call them names or make fun of them? It seems like a mixed message…
I asked how would he feel if people started picketing his business and tried to shut him down. We have a costume/magic/tuxedo business by the way. There are some Christians who have problems with magic even though this is the sleight of hand variety and not the animal entrails kind. What if some well meaning Christians thought we were spreading witchcraft and we couldn’t be polluting the peoples minds like that so they tried to get us to shut down. They tried to pass laws to run us out of town. They picket our store, they silently pray against us. How would he feel?
One of my problems is with Christians who try to legislate stupid laws like this. They are trying to ban gay marriage and I tried to ask my dad “to what end?” of course he couldn’t answer this. I asked what they were trying to accomplish. If they ban gay marriage will they stop being gay? Will they stop fighting and put down their signs and find the nearest person of the opposite sex to marry? Will they see the light and become Christians? Of course not. The only thing it will accomplish is it will make them hate Christians more. Now the fact that they hate them now is just proof that the Christians are right. Uh huh. Yeah sure. I asked him if Jesus would be in that picket line with the Christians. He said yes and I couldn’t control myself. I laughed a mighty, “Bullshit!” He was angry at that. I shouldn’t swear in front of him but as they say, “I learned it from watching you!” I couldn’t imagine Jesus praying AGAINST anyone. Doesn’t look like love. I see Jesus having dinner with these “sinners”, being their friend. Loving on them, not picketing them and praying against them as strangers. There’s a point I didn’t think of till after… How did the sinners of Jesus day respond to Him? If these Christians are acting like Jesus sinners should respond likewise right? Of course the sinners of Jesus day hated him and yelled at him and fought with him… Oh wait! The sinners were his friends! He hung out with them and ate with them! Jesus was accused of being a sinner because of the people he hung out with and his reputation of being a glutton and a drunk! If Jesus were here today he would be accused of being gay or at the very least a gay supporter! How did Jesus treat the people who followed all the rules? He yelled at them and called them horrible names.
He brought up that it is a sin but the times it is mentioned in the Bible it is often right next to things Christian do all the time. In Leviticus it is next to things like eating shellfish and cutting the edges of your beard. Or touching the skin of a dead pig (football) or eating meat with the blood still in it or wearing clothes of two different materials among lots of other things.
Why is homosexuality any worse than gluttony or greed? Why aren’t Christians picketing buffets and Malls? I asked him how many times Jesus mentions homosexuality. He didn’t know. He says he believes in his precious Bible and he doesn’t know. Not once. He said you couldn’t be a homosexual and be a Christian and I asked why you could be a glutton or be greedy or a liar and still go to heaven? Every Christian is one or another and yet these are acceptable. These are good sins. He said you couldn’t continue to sin and be saved. I think I’ll stand on grace because I wouldn’t make it otherwise.
I asked him if he knew why Sodom was destroyed and he didn’t know. Again it seems like he doesn’t even know his Bible. Ezekiel 16:49-50 " 'Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.”
Now homosexuality could be one of these detestable things, but if it were so important wouldn’t they mention it by name and maybe leave out “overfed” or “Did not help the poor and the needy?” . These sins seem familiar…
I am not saying homosexuality is a sin or not. It probably is but my point is who cares!? It isn’t about this being a sin or not because all sins get you the same death. You can change all the laws you want and it might get people to act more Christian but it won’t make them more Christ-like. Christ said it was all about the heart. He preached that if you have anger and hatred you have the same spirit of murder. If you have lust it is the same spirit as adultery. If we change the laws so no homosexual can be married or no one can get a legal abortion they might act a little better so Christians don’t freak out but the hearts will be the same. What would Jesus do as the tired phrase goes? Would he pray against the homosexuals? Would he start with, “God, please bless the fagots”?
I asked the question why were the gay people so angry at the Christians? It is because they see them as hating them. Of course a good Christian can’t hate so they won’t admit that but to the gay people it looks the same. You can’t separate love the sinner hate the sin when they are praying against you. Christians attack the lifestyle and you can’t attack the lifestyle without attacking the person. They say they don’t hate the homosexuals but it hard to tell. I have been in church services and I have heard how Christians talk about gay people. It usually isn’t in a positive light. How can we say we love them if we call them names or make fun of them? It seems like a mixed message…
I asked how would he feel if people started picketing his business and tried to shut him down. We have a costume/magic/tuxedo business by the way. There are some Christians who have problems with magic even though this is the sleight of hand variety and not the animal entrails kind. What if some well meaning Christians thought we were spreading witchcraft and we couldn’t be polluting the peoples minds like that so they tried to get us to shut down. They tried to pass laws to run us out of town. They picket our store, they silently pray against us. How would he feel?
One of my problems is with Christians who try to legislate stupid laws like this. They are trying to ban gay marriage and I tried to ask my dad “to what end?” of course he couldn’t answer this. I asked what they were trying to accomplish. If they ban gay marriage will they stop being gay? Will they stop fighting and put down their signs and find the nearest person of the opposite sex to marry? Will they see the light and become Christians? Of course not. The only thing it will accomplish is it will make them hate Christians more. Now the fact that they hate them now is just proof that the Christians are right. Uh huh. Yeah sure. I asked him if Jesus would be in that picket line with the Christians. He said yes and I couldn’t control myself. I laughed a mighty, “Bullshit!” He was angry at that. I shouldn’t swear in front of him but as they say, “I learned it from watching you!” I couldn’t imagine Jesus praying AGAINST anyone. Doesn’t look like love. I see Jesus having dinner with these “sinners”, being their friend. Loving on them, not picketing them and praying against them as strangers. There’s a point I didn’t think of till after… How did the sinners of Jesus day respond to Him? If these Christians are acting like Jesus sinners should respond likewise right? Of course the sinners of Jesus day hated him and yelled at him and fought with him… Oh wait! The sinners were his friends! He hung out with them and ate with them! Jesus was accused of being a sinner because of the people he hung out with and his reputation of being a glutton and a drunk! If Jesus were here today he would be accused of being gay or at the very least a gay supporter! How did Jesus treat the people who followed all the rules? He yelled at them and called them horrible names.
He brought up that it is a sin but the times it is mentioned in the Bible it is often right next to things Christian do all the time. In Leviticus it is next to things like eating shellfish and cutting the edges of your beard. Or touching the skin of a dead pig (football) or eating meat with the blood still in it or wearing clothes of two different materials among lots of other things.
Why is homosexuality any worse than gluttony or greed? Why aren’t Christians picketing buffets and Malls? I asked him how many times Jesus mentions homosexuality. He didn’t know. He says he believes in his precious Bible and he doesn’t know. Not once. He said you couldn’t be a homosexual and be a Christian and I asked why you could be a glutton or be greedy or a liar and still go to heaven? Every Christian is one or another and yet these are acceptable. These are good sins. He said you couldn’t continue to sin and be saved. I think I’ll stand on grace because I wouldn’t make it otherwise.
I asked him if he knew why Sodom was destroyed and he didn’t know. Again it seems like he doesn’t even know his Bible. Ezekiel 16:49-50 " 'Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.”
Now homosexuality could be one of these detestable things, but if it were so important wouldn’t they mention it by name and maybe leave out “overfed” or “Did not help the poor and the needy?” . These sins seem familiar…
I am not saying homosexuality is a sin or not. It probably is but my point is who cares!? It isn’t about this being a sin or not because all sins get you the same death. You can change all the laws you want and it might get people to act more Christian but it won’t make them more Christ-like. Christ said it was all about the heart. He preached that if you have anger and hatred you have the same spirit of murder. If you have lust it is the same spirit as adultery. If we change the laws so no homosexual can be married or no one can get a legal abortion they might act a little better so Christians don’t freak out but the hearts will be the same. What would Jesus do as the tired phrase goes? Would he pray against the homosexuals? Would he start with, “God, please bless the fagots”?
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